Creating Spaces for Men to Thrive with Peter Ostapko

In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, Doug Smith talks with Peter Ostapko, co-founder of Kinsman Journal and leader of the growing Kinsman community in Springfield, Missouri. Peter shares his journey from a career in banking to launching gatherings designed to help men find authentic brotherhood, friendship, and faith-driven connection.

Together they discuss the loneliness epidemic among leaders, why local community is essential, and how intentional gatherings can transform lives. Peter also opens up about parenting, navigating career transitions, and the importance of slowing down and creating space for what matters most.

Whether you’re a leader longing for deeper friendships, a father seeking wisdom, or someone discerning your next step, this conversation will challenge and inspire you.

Episode Highlights:
00:00 Introduction and Peter’s passion for community
02:00 How Kinsman gatherings began and why men said, “I didn’t know how much I needed this”
06:00 The power of local connection vs. national networks
09:00 Structuring meaningful gatherings with intentionality
13:00 Friendship, brotherhood, and why men struggle to connect
17:00 Moving beyond transactional relationships
20:00 The annual Kinsman Summit and why environment matters
22:00 Publishing Kinsman Journal and the story behind it
25:00 Fatherhood lessons: being intentional, dealing with your stuff, and prioritizing your marriage
30:00 Discerning career transitions and leaning into curiosity
35:00 Why Kinsman became a nonprofit and Peter’s approach to fundraising
40:00 The importance of slowing down and creating space to rest
42:00 Best advice Peter has ever received
47:00 Bucket list dreams: Italy and visiting every MLB stadium with his kids
48:00 What Peter would tell his younger self
49:00 Legacy: being remembered as a faithful servant, husband, and father

🌐 https://kinsmen.org/ – A high-quality publication for men exploring themes of faith, fatherhood, and work. 

🌐 https://kinsmen.org/gatherings – Community events and annual summit hosted by Kinsman to foster brotherhood and authentic friendships.

The L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Andocia Marketing Solutions. Andocia exists to bring leaders’ visions to life. Visit https://andocia.com
 to learn more.

WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/e4o5TLH87yE?si=ur3Ph7a40XzOQFv7

🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6huMUOmGFupQNjvrKALZ6u?si=7a9b9a2e1dcd4eac 

🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-l3-leadership-podcast-with-doug-smith/id1569987442?i=1000723571859

🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: https://www.buzzsprout.com/5082/episodes/17705473

SUBSCRIBE TO: @l3leadership @dougsmithlive

Transcript

Doug Smith 0:00

Hey leader, and welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith, and I am your host, and we recorded this episode live from our Virgo Realty Studios. Today you're going to hear my conversation with Peter Stopko. Peter is the founder of Kinsman and the publisher of the Kinsman Journal. And we talk about a lot of things, but we specifically hone in on how he left his full-time job to pursue his dreams, which I know is an ambition of many of you. And we also talk about what he's doing to connect men across the country through incredible events and experiences, which I love. So get ready for a great conversation. We're going to dive right in. Here's my conversation with Peter Ostko. Well, Peter Ostopko, welcome to the L3 Leadership Podcast. Uh, we were just talking, and I feel like you're my brother. Uh, we're both extremely passionate about community and bringing together people and really creating authentic friendships. And so that's where I'd love to just start diving in, but give people a little context for what you do when it comes to community and connecting people. Well, thank you for having me on here.

Speaker 2 1:08

Honored to be here. Uh yeah, you know, honestly, I mean, I was in the business world uh for about 15 years. I graduated from college in 2008 and graduated with a finance degree. And so uh, you know, in the midst of a financial collapse, and so I remember our teacher, professor, saying, Hey, you're gonna have to look for some new things. And uh, anyways, went into insurance and business and uh ultimately was in banking uh and spent a lot of time in the community, just you know, building relationships uh and just being connected is something that comes very natural to me. But something that I was observing was uh just a great deal of fragmentation uh that I saw in our community in Springfield where we live, Springfield, Missouri, the greater Springfield area is probably about 300,000, 350,000. So a good size, uh, but certainly not like a thriving city or metropolitan or something, but enough where everybody has something to do and there's a lot of, you know, everybody's kind of busy with their thing. And so I said, well, what are we doing that is kind of bringing people together? You know, everybody's kind of got their silo of whether it's a faith silo or you know, a business silo or even the mastermind or you know, the country club or whatever it may be. Everybody's kind of got their thing and their tribe, and and those are good things. We need those things. Uh, but what what's the connectivity of those look like within a community? And uh so, anyways, we uh we started out with Kinsman as a publication, as a really high-end book, a journal designed to really provoke thought and dialogue with men. And then for a couple of years, we just kind of sat uh on the idea of community and what does that really look like. We didn't want to jump into it, we wanted it to be authentic and the right thing. And so we launched our first Kinsman table gathering in uh June of 2023. And uh really what I did is I built out a spreadsheet of 10 different industries, uh, and I picked about 15 men from each one, and I just sent some invites out, and uh I had space for a hundred men, it was invite only. I sent out I think a hundred and five invites. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna get five RSVPs or a hundred, I have no clue. And I sent them out, and within two weeks I received about uh 82 or 83 RSVPs. Guys are like, I'm not gonna miss this. And uh I said, okay, I think we're on to something here. And after the first gathering that we had, I mean, it was just beautiful. It was an incredible uh just place for guys to come together. I think they were waiting for, okay, what what what is this? Is he gonna ask me to be a part of like a thing here? Or is this like a what's the shtick? Right? What's the what's the catch here? Uh, but there wasn't any. Uh the heart and the genuine desire was to just bring a sense of uh community uh around men that were typically the ones pouring out or doing and showing and giving and all of those things. And I just wanted to create a space for them uh where they could come and be. And uh the most common thing I heard that night, I think I had nine, eight or nine guys told me either that night or the next day, and a few of them were crying, and they said, you know, I didn't know how much I needed this. And uh so I was just like, you know, there's there's really something here. And so since then we've built we've built out a really a frequency for the table. We do it every four months here locally, and then we do a monthly forum format, and then we do uh a couple of the different things, including our summit, which is kind of our high-end event that we do uh as a fundraiser for the organization. But uh what we're seeing though is the fruitfulness of you know cultivating the soil for years now and just the compounding effect of what is happening in and through the faith, business, you know, marketplace community uh in our region as a result of men that are connecting and being engaged in these spaces. And um it's it's pretty profound.

Doug Smith 4:40

So yeah, and it sounds really, really simple. You know, in our city, there's this whole story, and I won't I won't go into all of it, but uh basically there was like four men greatly used by God in our city in the 1960s, and basically they felt called to this vision to make our city more famous for God than anything else, uh, and that time specifically steel. And they just started gathering leaders every single month. And out of that, I mean, they've they've been doing this now for 50 plus years, out of that came, I think, over 80 ministries, churches, like it's amazing. And so when I got around the vision, you know, I spent an hour and a half on the phone with the one of the leaders of it, and I said, I feel called to do for my generation what you did for yours. What should I do? And he said something so simple, but he just said, just start gathering people and see what the Holy Spirit does. And I love that you stepped out and did that. But, you know, it's one thing to put out an invite and gather people, but then what do you do with a time that's so meaningful? And I'm curious, like, how how do you structure those times quarterly that that leave men basically saying, wow, I didn't know how much I needed this?

Peter Ostapko 5:41

Well, I think one of the things that we try to do, uh let me just first say something real quick that you said that I think is really important for all of us to hear is that you know, in a global economy that we find ourselves in, in where there's content and and podcasts, we have access to so much information and people all across the world. And so as a result of that, we get to hear and learn from you know some of the most brilliant communicators and and people, uh, and teachers and theologians and business minds and all of that, and it's wonderful. But I think through that, there is a lost sense of the importance of community and locality. And what I love about what you said is that there were men locally that said, you know what, we're gonna do this here. And it's interesting because people long for that uh and they're just waiting for someone to just pick that up and say, okay, I'm gonna run with this. Because ultimately, like you and I, we go to great conferences, I've been to great events and all of that. But at the end you make great people and you have fun. But then you come home and you're back in the everyday. And there's something different about, you know, when you're with and spending extended time with people that have the same weather patterns. And, you know, if there's grief in the community, you all share that together, you know, or if there's a new company coming to town or one that shudders or all of that, like it's felt differently. And so there's something about the community and the sense of locality uh that those men saw in Pittsburgh uh that others have seen elsewhere, and we're seeing that here. And so I say that just to encourage because I I thought a few years ago, I was like, yeah, I'm seeing all these amazing things that are happening in Atlanta, in Dallas, and you know, Colorado Springs and Orange County, and then now Franklin, Nashville, Tennessee, all these kind of just micro movements of you know, Christianity and faith. And I was like, well, you know, why not Springfield? Why, why not Springfield being a hub of creativity uh around the place of male formation and community? And so I just said that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna run with it. And so uh, anyways, I I just want to speak to what you said though, because I think it's really, really important about the the focus of local, like that that is where transformation and change happens. It's it's not on this broad growth, you know, outside of our community, it's right where we are. It's extremely important.

Doug Smith 7:51

A thousand percent. And again, I feel like I'm talking to myself, this is awesome to find another connector. Uh, but in our city, you know, when I I was mentioning to you before we started recording, we have this, uh, I call it a pastor mind, these influential spiritual leaders in our city. And when we started gathering, they, you know, within a year, they all said the same thing the men in your group said. They said, I didn't know how much I needed this. And, you know, when you ask them what they needed, they basically just say friendship. Uh, but what I think is so important, especially amongst leaders, is all of these guys, if I talked to them before, they could mention the national mentors that they have or the national communities that they're a part of. But in my opinion, and and I would say that they would all say this the same thing now, that that does not make up for the local, hey, I get to see you in person. Like that is what's truly transformational. I don't care how how many Zoom calls you're on with people nationally, it cannot make up, in my opinion. Would you would you say the same thing? Or I would.

Peter Ostapko 8:45

You know, I yeah, there was a I was able to listen uh at a at a gathering of some guys uh a year or two two years back, and Pete Oakes was speaking, and he was talking about he talks a lot about spiritual, social, and uh economic capital. And um one of the things he was talking about is the social capital. Uh, and he was talking about like connections and friendships and your networks and stuff like that. And he said, you know, you're gonna have certain circles that are local, some of them are gonna be more regional and some are gonna be more broad. And so I've seen the, you know, there's benefits to all of them in different ways. Uh, but you know, the people that you do life with in the traditional sense are are right where you are. They're, you know, again, they're they're in your neighborhoods, they're in your community, you see them often. And uh if if it were me, I would invest as much time as I can with those people because those people are are right where you are. And so I think there's a lot of value to that. To get back to your question about the way that our gatherings go, specifically our table, I found that the table, you know, one of the things we're looking into is okay, what does growth look like? We're we're not trying to grow for the sake of growing, uh, but it's just happening. Uh, and so we've had guys reach out from a variety of different places that are like, hey, I hear about what's happening with kinsmen in Springfield, and and we want that for here. How do we do this? And so we've tested this in a couple of different markets and we're learning about what that looks like. Um, but one of the things I think is really unique to what we're doing is it's not anything new. It's just we're not we're not having guys sign up in the traditional sense. We're not trying to extract or get anything from them, we're not cheapening, we're not, you know, most guys' events, you know, it's like, okay, we meet at the conference center or the hotel lobby thing or the church community room or whatever, and it's like, okay, we have a buffet and there's sandwich, make a burger, you know, or whatever, or taco bar. And all well and good, nothing wrong with that. But like when we get together, like at our gatherings, like we feast, like we eat really, really, really good food. And it's not it's not like 14 different kinds of meat and we obsess about bacon. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, I'm talking about like it's it's really good premium quality food, and we have really intentional details. You know, we have a decorated table. Um, we have table assignments where guys are gonna sit. Uh, we remove every obstacle and barrier uh for guys to think that, okay, what do they want from me? Because a lot of guys, and and women too for sure, but the context of what we do for our organization, we really uh speak to men and in that space. A lot of guys are always performing. They're trying to show up in a certain way, whether that's in work or in their community or whatever, and and that's not bad. Uh, but a lot of guys just want a space where they can show up and and be seen for who they are and not what they do. And so the tables kind of become that. And then so that's kind of that's kind of like you know, 1.0 is okay, the environment that we're setting, it actually breeds a level of expectation where guys walk in and they're like, Oh, okay, no, this is different. Like, I'm gonna bring my best self. I like I am seen, uh, I am wanted, I belong to something because I'm in this room. And guys take that seriously, and it's and it's amazing what happens uh when you create an environment and you cultivate that uh rather than just kind of throwing it together, be like, hey, we're gonna get some guys together, just sign up, and and again, there's that's not bad. Uh, but some of the intentionality that we put in in the way in which we bring men together, uh, I think is is very, very important.

Doug Smith 12:07

Yeah, so so you feast, which is awesome. Is that is that it is that like the whole thing for four hours?

Peter Ostapko 12:12

No, no, no, like a combination. Yeah, we do a few different things. So yeah, and they've kind of evolved a little bit, but it's a combination of teaching and not like a preaching like you hear on a Sunday type thing. It's more uh it's more just like it, yeah, it's it's a combination of life. It could be a little bit of leadership type stuff. Um, it's more just, you know, I use this word a lot, demonstration. It's it's just okay, it's you know, testimony. When we look at scripture, you know, we overcome how? By the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. And so, especially men, you know, we really long to hear the stories of other men and their victories and their triumphs, and yes, their defeats. And so we just try to create space where story is shared, whether that's the filter is through a business context or a marriage context or a faith context. I mean, faith is obviously the undertone of everything. We always read scripture at the beginning, usually we reference or quote, you know, Bonhoeffer or C.S. Lewis or, you know, somebody uh like that. And then we feast and we break bread, and then you know, we always honor men in the room. Uh, we always create space to just elevate and uh celebrate the men in our community that are doing great things, sometimes very much unseen. And uh so again, we're just we're just creating an environment that's very, very authentic. It's not rushed, it's not programmatic, uh, but it's very intentional. And, you know, I'd like to say we're meticulous about 80% of everything that happens, but we leave room, we have to leave room for the Holy Spirit to move. And so we do that. And uh, so yeah, we do have some teaching, but we also, you know, we have space too where we do some some worship, but it's not a full band, you know, we do an acoustic set. Usually we choose a classic hymn or two um and we pray. And sometimes, you know, we'll have a panel and sometimes we don't, and sometimes we'll lean into things that are a little bit more uncomfortable or difficult to talk about. Sometimes they're easier, and it just it varies from time to time. But what's been really neat is guys will rearrange their schedule now to be there. Uh they'll be like, oh, we're gonna push back our vacation a couple days. I don't want to miss table or whatever it may be. The biggest challenge we have is uh I have a you know, I have a list of 350, 375 men, and you know, the room fill or the room seats a third of that. And and I'm not gonna make a bigger room. I I want more smaller rooms, not bigger rooms. And uh so that's a challenge, but you know, we're trying to find ways to, you know, to help with that, you know, excess, but uh it's a good problem to have.

Doug Smith 14:36

Yeah, we were talking earlier, you know, as a connector. For me, like the greatest part about being a connector is what happens after you're no longer needed, right? It's like, hey, I put on the event, I got the people in the room, and then basically, as you know, Reed Carpenter, the mentor in my life, said, just see what the Holy Spirit does. Which you were talking about your passion for for men and people just in general to have real friendships. And and man, there's a loneliness epidemic in our world right now. What have you learned about friendship through what you're doing? Is that is that your ultimate hope for people to come to the table? And and what does real authentic friendship look like?

Will Host 15:09

At Indocha, we help transform visions into results. What does that mean? We often work with companies who are doing amazing things, have incredible products and services, but fail to communicate what they do properly and market themselves effectively. We passionately serve entrepreneurs, business leaders, and visionaries to see what's in their heart and their visions for the future come to life. We do that by providing fractional marketing leadership and creative execution all in one. That's what we call VCMO. With VCMO, you get a marketing director and a team of creative professionals to help execute all of your marketing needs all for one monthly cost. How do we do all this? We do it three ways. Number one, we get your vision. We get excited about your mission and your trajectory as a company and come alongside to see you go further and faster. Two, we have a team of talented strategists and creatives to get all of the work done. And three, we flat out work freaking hard for you and your company. Reach out today. Let's start a conversation.

Peter Ostapko 16:10

Yeah, we just revamped, that's a great question. We just revamped our formal vision statement. I made a post on LinkedIn about this because we were doing it, and someone was like, Well, that kind of sounds like a mission statement. I'm like, vision, mission, purpose, positioning, whatever. It's a statement that we live by. And it's this it's to faithfully demonstrate a redemptive, Christ-centered brotherhood and influence others to do the same. You know, when Paul talks about brotherhood in the New Testament, he uses this the word felia, uh love. And when you think about like friendship and brotherhood, like a lot of guys don't think about love, you know what I mean? But it's this idea of attachment, it's this idea of like needing one another. And guys by default want to be independent. They, you know, whether they like it or not, or whether they'll say it or not, like we know, we all kind of want to have this like I made it on my own, this self-made type of thing. And there's no such thing as a self-made man. But there's just our our the cultural headwinds of you know what it looks like for for guys to to have a brotherhood, to have a friendship, uh, has been hijacked. It's been either perverted on one end or it's been, you know, overly alpha mailed on the other end. And so guys that are like, okay, well, I don't really know where I fall in this, I don't even know what this looks like. And uh so we like to say a lot, we're trying to create this this demonstration of what it looks like for guys to show up. So part of that is it's praying with one another, yes. It's it's honoring one another, it's wrestling through things, it's just creating space just to be and just to have friendship and connection. Uh, I said this before we started recording, but I think in a lot of ways we we almost need to unlearn about what friendship looks like. I I recently wrote an essay through our email, it was talking about the fallacy of transactional relationships and friendships. And especially for guys, you know, women are just so much better at this. They're they are so much more authentic, they're much more genuine, and and there's challenges there too, of course, but women are just more instinctively and naturally better at at connection and friendship than men are. And I got a lot what I've found is that a lot of guys uh they are friendship by association. And so it's like, oh, our kids coach soccer together, so we're friends. It's like, no, you're not, you guys just coach soccer together. Or even this one, this is a common one, guys. Just like, oh yeah, we're good friends. No, you're not. Like, is we're in a life group together. We get together, you know, for we're life groups with our families and our couples once a month. And and that's a good thing. You should be doing that or some form of that. But if that's all that it is, like, like there's so much more there. There's so much more there. Uh, if I could tell you the conversations I've had with guys in the last few weeks about suicide, about loss, about grief, about so many things that are deep. About, you know, I it's just every guy longs to have connection and friendship with other guys in that way. And uh, I just I think I think guys are recognizing and realizing that we really need that, uh, but they don't really know how to go find it. Because a lot of times where they go search to find it, it's awkward and it's weird. And and in their traditional faith Christian circles, we've layered on this whole weight of accountability and righteousness, and it's like, well, those are important things, but like we lead with shame, and then guys are like, I'm out. And so guys are like, well, what I have found is if, you know, I mean, when we talk about sanctification in the process of sanctification, it's like, okay, in the process of being sanctified, is we say, okay, you know what? I shouldn't be doing that thing anymore. I shouldn't be looking at that thing, I shouldn't be acting that way. And when you're around other men where you're learning to live that out, it's just going to happen. You don't, you don't have to lead with, don't do this or don't do that. It's like that's going to happen. If you're if you're engaged in the scriptures, if you're sharpening one another, if you're loving one another, those things will come out. And so I think I think sometimes we're looking for that quick knee-jerk kind of transformation in a person's life when it's like, we're playing the long game here. Like I'm I'm thinking 10, 20, 30, 40 years ahead in everything that we do. That's the only way we can.

Doug Smith 20:07

So yeah. Well, and what you just said is exactly why what you're doing is so important. Again, gathering people, because again, most people crave that, but they don't know how to get it. The the language that we use around this is that everybody, and I was specifically talk to leaders, needs a group in which they're fully known, fully loved, and fully challenged. And you need all three, right? You need a place where you can talk about suicide or grief and know that it's a safe place and that you'll be fully loved unconditionally, regardless of what you're bringing up, regardless of when you mess up, etc. Uh, but at the same time, and for me, it's most important, is you're gonna be fully challenged. Like sometimes we do need people to get in our face and to slap us and say, What are you thinking? Are you crazy? Um, and so thank you just for providing opportunities like that. Um, you mentioned the quarterly gatherings. I'm also curious, like your big annual gathering is coming up in September. Like, what's the difference in that and and what what's kind of the purpose and agenda for that whole thing?

Peter Ostapko 21:01

Yeah, so our organization, we're a 501c3. Uh, and I I served on a lot of boards and was involved in a variety of things before uh we launched Kinsman and the organization. And one of the things I always wanted to set out to do was to create a you know a diversified revenue stream as an organization. Uh, and so events are something that we do. We like I mentioned earlier, we had this publication. This it's called Kinsman Journal, but it's essentially a really high quality premium uh photo book. I say it's like a it's like a picture book for adult Christian men. But uh it's it's just a beautiful, beautiful book. And so we've we've created some revenues with that. Uh, but then the events that we do, some of them are ticketed, some of them are invite only, and they're not. But the summit is is a ticketed event, and it's a two and a half day, it'll be this year a two and a half day experience. Uh, it's only for a hundred men, and that includes our speakers. Uh and we have uh nine, including myself. And uh so it'll be a tremendous two and a half days where we're just we're gonna go after matters of the head as much as matters of the heart. And I believe environment really matters and so that's why we're hosting it at Top of the Rock in Big Cedar. And if you've ever been to the Midwest uh and haven't been down there, it's it's an extraordinary place. And uh but yeah I think it's important to break away. It's important to break away if you can annually. And so the summit will be that uh it's designed for you to have connection with just about anybody there that you'd want to. So it's really not a conference but it's also not like a retreat where it's just you know 10, 15, 20 people. It's it's kind of that in between. So uh so yeah that's coming up later later this fall and just from a you know numbers standpoint you know our goal is to basically 50% of all the money that we take in uh from the tickets like we're not gonna do an ask or anything that at the event it's it's it's gonna be uh taken care of but our goal is to basically have a 50 to 60 percent uh net back to the organization uh through partnerships and then through ticket sales and so it's a very high-end experience we give really really good gifts it's a it's gonna be a a beautiful couple of days so that's awesome uh tell me more about the journal like I thought it was interesting when you know I was researching everything you're doing that you started with that yeah and I think specifically uh maybe I heard you on a podcast you talked about this book that impacted you I think it was called Revenge of the Analogue correct me if I'm wrong but tell me about that that that fascinates me yeah some of the origin story uh part of the origin story is I was uh this would have been in 2017 uh at the time I was an auditor for a uh actually no I was I was doing church lending and uh I was in Wichita Kansas finished up some sales calls that morning and picked up a book called The Revenge of Analog Real Things and Why They Matter and in there there were two chapters and all the chapters read independently uh but two of the chapters were Revenge The Revenge of Print and the Revenge of Paper and the Holy Spirit just used that to just awaken a sense of curiosity for me. And so for the next couple years I spent a lot of time just reading and learning about what was happening in media print media uh specifically in the place of like men and fatherhood. Those, you know, I was a young dad at the time and still am but uh really just I just was really really curious about about five or six different things and how they all kind of connected and that book was really kind of the the uh the beginning of that and uh so we emerged from that in 2019 and just decided hey we're gonna publish a really high-end uh publication for for men and it's gonna be centered on faith fatherhood and work and it's gonna be a series of essays first person uh beautiful rich photography uh and really content designed to provoke thought and dialogue uh between a man and and his creator between a man and his family between a man and his friends uh and so really you know a lot of what we do organizationally uh even to this day has been birthed out of you know the dialogue that we first had on paper and now that we're having them in you know in in in uh proximity and in gathering spaces but publishing is very much a part of our organizational DNA and and we're looking at ways where we're going to continue to do that in creative ways outside of future volumes but also uh in between so uh yeah the book I I will tell you there there is and I say this just with with humility but there's nothing like nothing like it out there. Nothing. Every single guy that gets it they're like this is unbelievable. Like there's a lot of really great books out there but a lot of guys just don't read them. They'll read some of them but not all of them and I've I've ran into guys multiple different times at different things and they're like I still go back and I read the words to live by every single month. And uh it's it's just a it's as much a I I think it was John Tyson that said this. He goes man this is like a modern day artifact uh and that's really what it is it's an artifact and so it's a beautiful book. We have it the second print that we did we actually created a gifting experience with it and so when we ship it out it's it's basically ready to be given as a gift because we found a lot of people like to give it that way.

Doug Smith 25:49

So wow really cool you mentioned you're a father and you know and you're locking on with all these guys so you know I'm a father of five as well so I I just always love asking dads especially people who are in community a lot what's what what are your like top five parenting tips that you're learning about it doesn't have to be five but man what's working when it comes to fatherhood for you yeah uh boy there's there's there's the heavy ones and there's the light ones.

Peter Ostapko 26:13

The light ones uh I would start out with this is um you know you gotta be in you gotta be intentional with each of your kids differently uh they have different needs you can't parent them all the same which is hard you can still be fair but you need to parent them differently they have different needs and uh no matter what their age is they all crave and want one on one time. So try to find time for that. It's extremely important. I'm seeing that it's hard to do but it it it's it's extremely important. That's one thing uh a heavy thing that I would say is especially to to men out there uh you need to deal with your stuff uh because if you don't deal with your stuff uh it will be a perpetual thing throughout your family uh so you got to deal with your stuff and that looks differently for everybody it could be something small it could be something really really big uh I don't want to say I I don't believe in necessarily in generational curses I I don't believe in that but I do believe there are strongholds um that are carried down uh but the blood washes that you know I mean we are made new we are a new creation in Christ and so I see a lot of men that uh they fall back to the false self and they don't live from the true identity uh that is spoken over us in scripture when we are a son of God. And so I think dealing with that is an extremely important thing for men. I think the other thing that I would say a parenting tip, this is kind of a non-traditional parenting tip. Something I've been speaking or I've been mentioning a little bit. I see this in Christendom uh where men uh especially if they come from kind of a fractured broken dynamic at home growing up or with their own you know father is they overcompensate and so now they're like their life is centered around their children uh because they want to be at everything and be the best dad and those are those are good things. But you got to take care of yourself too. So you have to learn about what that looks like for yourself. You have to find spaces for where are you having fun, where are you enjoying yourself. Not everything needs to be efficient and productive. And I think you know I think it's uh Jeremy Kubachek and Giant they speak a lot about this idea of you have to know yourself to lead yourself or lead yourself to know yourself and and I think there's a lot of truth to that. So I would say that is a parenting tip. We all know about the importance of a relationship with our spouse that is that is far superior. And so uh to make that a priority I would definitely say that too.

Doug Smith 28:31

So I love that and talking about owning your stuff and actually getting healed from it and doing something. Again go just going back to the whole thread of this conversation is one of the best places to do that is in community. And so again whether it's what you're doing other groups like find that group where you're fully known loved and challenged um what I also admire about you is yeah well let me just ask you this first career wise do you miss being an auditor or in in corporate America at all?

Peter Ostapko 28:58

Well I would say this like uh the the banking that I was in banking for um yeah I was an insurance I don't miss insurance auditing at all like that was a job I had to get a career going I had to get something and and I learned a lot of really important skills and and God used it. He doesn't waste anything uh I don't miss banking I don't miss the regulatory compliance and oversight and just constant you know just uh you know that the industry has become such a um it's become very non-relational uh and so it's become commoditized and so it was difficult to be in in commercial banking which was what I was in uh I did have a few really great clients and I missed some of that but I I still I'm able in the work that we're doing I'm still very much involved in the market in in that way so um yeah I don't I don't miss it at all. I would I would say this though uh every single position that I've had uh every career that I've had leading has been fruitful and necessary for where I am now today so nothing is wasted but I would say this is if you are if you are not in a good place if you're angry all the time if you're frustrated if you don't have a good boss or you're not a good employee just you need to find a new career a new job like you need to go you need to go elsewhere however if you're frustrated but you're not always frustrated uh if sometimes you you know your boss and you get after it but you know overall it's not too bad like there's reasons to leave and reasons to stay. And so I would say this though I think everybody needs some type of a creative outlet uh outside of their profession. Uh and it doesn't have to be we're obsessed with this whole idea of like side hustle side gig it doesn't need to be any of that kind of stuff. Just do something that brings you joy and it connects you to the creator. Like do that. That'll be a valuable thing for you to do. So I would I would say that I would encourage people in that too.

Doug Smith 30:50

Yeah and and we do live in a culture where you know everyone wants to be an entrepreneur do their own thing like you're saying whether it's a side hustle or full time but I think a lot of people do have dreams in their heart and maybe they're in a job and so can you walk us through like what was the what was the discerning process? Like how did you you talked about having a creative outlet is that how you started and then one day you feel like okay I need to do this full time or yeah what what was that like?

Peter Ostapko 31:13

Yeah I want to be careful how I say this because everybody's road and path is different and so I don't want you to take exactly what I say as gospel but I mean for the first seven years everything that we did was born was born in the margins of life before and after the kids went to bed you know I I wasn't like laboring over kinsmen you know at night when I should be with my kids. I was with my kids uh you know I wasn't taking off the weekend and saying all right guys I'm gonna go work and I wasn't doing that I wasn't sacrificing the things that I was I that I needed to be involved in and the holiness of being a parent and a husband and a father you know at the expense of of what I was trying to build and create. And so with that I would say it's gonna take time like allow it to unfold uh but lean into the curiosity that that you have and that's just simply what I did. I was faithful in the thing that God just put before us and I was just leaning into that curiosity and continue to do that to this day. But I would say this like there there was years there where I was like man I just there's so much more and I just I want something I want something different. And I think there are some practical things that people can do to help gauge and gain a better understanding of how they're wired. I found Strengthsfinder to be very very helpful. I know there's the Myers Briggs and there's some of those like you know personality which is great but Strengthsfinder I thought was really really helpful because it kind of gives you specifics about you know what are you really good at? What just comes naturally to you and you know if you're not in a position and this is something that I found if you're not in a position where you're doing something where you're good at it and you enjoy it then if you're just in it because you maybe get paid a lot of money and that's the only reason why you're in it, that is a very depressing way to live. And so don't let that be the reason why you're doing something. You have to enjoy what you're doing because when you enjoy what you're doing like you are your best self and the world needs that and so um with the place of dreams you know that that's a big word that we kind of layer on uh and so I would just say to that take the next step in whatever it is that you want to do it doesn't have to be a giant leap and you'll know when that time comes um we we knew that like every again we we knew that with with kinsmen you know for seven years I was an unpaid volunteer I mean unpaid volunteer I mean thousands of hours you know what I mean like but I wasn't I wasn't doing it because I was like hey I want to get paid someday I was doing it because like this makes me come alive and I love doing it. And and I just was faithful in the next thing that the Lord put before us. For us it was seven and a half years before I was employed through the organization. For others it could be seven and a half months for for others it could be never I mean there's there's no template for how that works. But I would say is that it you know you need to create space and time for it to unfold uh but I would you know lean into the curiosity that you have uh that's a really important thing.

Doug Smith 34:06

So yeah I think one of the key things you said there that God's ministered to me multiple times. So I feel like at every crossroads in my life where I'm like hey is it time to go or am I supposed to stay I just felt like God's been faithful and just consistently whispered to me like you'll know. And it sounds so simple but it's like okay like if I'm supposed to jump and go do something else or to go do this full time like I'm going to know. I don't have to stress and until that like you said just be faithful where you're at and with what God's put in your hand for this season. And uh it really is that simple but we we tend to way overcomplicate things.

Peter Ostapko 34:38

Yeah and I would say this like um you know one pre-qualifier is you have to be in unity with your spouse on this. Yeah if if if if you're not in unity on it like you definitely don't need to move forward with it. You have to be in unity on that uh have to be uh and then the other thing I would say with that too is like you know not all things need to be like a profitable venture. Sometimes it's just fun just to do it. You know that's why I say like if you're curious about something I I think it might scratch that creative itch or that you know entrepreneurial thing or whatever there might be for for someone uh just to do the next thing like don't feel like you have to have it all figured out eventually you're just gonna have to put yourself out there and just do it. So yeah.

Doug Smith 35:18

I am curious like when you were processing starting it it's a nonprofit which I thought was interesting.

Peter Ostapko 35:23

Like was it hard for you to discern nonprofit for profit LLC is it like was that a hard decision and what what led you to to choosing a nonprofit yeah there's there's a few pieces on that um I I just saw long term our ability to be generous as an organization uh was going to be more conducive for a nonprofit uh I just I saw that and you know yeah it just it just made sense I I will say this and this isn't the case for everything uh but I didn't I didn't want to have like profitability or ROI metrics tied to what we were doing. I I just I never felt like that was going to be the appropriate way. You know we talk a lot about like hospitality and lavish generosity like and I mean that is the gospel defined is is receiving you know what we will never deserve. And I just think for us and and what we were aiming to do in the hearts and lives of men and their families and and the companies that they work and serve and lead and I was just like I don't I don't want I don't want to have that measurement for us as an organization to say okay well was this a profitable thing. I was just like I want to remove that because if if if we're gonna serve in love like and reach people or not even reach that's just that's an overused term but just to connect I I just I didn't want to have to have it tied to a profitability metric. So but that was just me. Yeah so yeah well I so I you know 14 years of my my life have been in nonprofit world and specifically most of those in fundraising uh has that been easy for you have you had to do a lot of fundraising what do you think of that whole world yeah this is a fun question uh everything we did is completely non-traditional I mean we were throwing like our table gatherings I'll just say this I mean our table gatherings that we host I mean they cost usually around 15 16 17 thousand dollars um but like we don't charge guys how much of that is this lavish feast I mean I would I want to come to the the event space it's kind of tied in the event space that we use is such a beautiful spot it's overlooking this river it's just a gorgeous environment and I'm like we have to have it here for now and uh so it yeah I mean we're spending but it's like okay again from a practical standpoint it's not practical but the gospel's not practical like so many things in our life shouldn't be practical practical and so that kind of goes back to the for-profit nonprofit is like we want to keep it small and give it all away and that's not to say that we can't grow to a $20 million organization it's just it's just mindset of generosity and it's hard to do that when you're when you're a uh a business that's operating with investors and trying to create a return and there's a place for that I mean that you absolutely have to have that and and so that's necessary but for the purposes of what we do it just it just didn't feel like the right thing. So with fundraising I I mean like miraculously by the hand of God things have just happened. And uh we we didn't even do a fundraiser until uh a formal one until we did this initiative that we launched uh back in uh November December called the Patrons initiative and it was just kind of a a very intentional way of telling our story as an organization and what's happened and where we see ourselves going and inviting about a hundred families and people and and companies into that process. So it wasn't a traditional gala where you buy a ticket and all of that. And then we might do something to some extent of that in the future but we've just kind of taken a non-traditional approach to a lot of things that we've done and and that's not to say that everybody should do that. It's just um I've always I always see even though we're not in competition with anybody or anything else I I'm always very keenly aware of like what's happening in culture, what's happening in our community what what are people saying? I'm always taking inventory of that and it and it and it affects the way that I make decisions in in a good way because I'm just aware of what's happening. And so with the fundraising dynamic I I'm just thinking like okay how do people want to approach be approached about the way that they are um investing their dollars because that's a very sacred thing. It's very very hard to make a profit in business and then have money left over that you'd want to give. And so it's just right you know I think I see I see this a lot with nonprofits is they're just doing the same thing they've always done. And it's just slowly year by year by year there's just this attrition and it's like we have to have more creativity about the ways that we're engaging in in the work that we're doing organizationally. One of the things we've been very very careful about is not hiring a lot of staff where we have a lot of high overhead. You know I work very hard my wife and I work very hard but yeah we probably do the work of like three or four people but it allows us to be very generous as an organization and and and I don't know I mean I just think that there's a model out there I feel like especially in the nonprofit it's like okay we do this type of fundraiser we do this thing this is how we engage with our donors this this and that and I would just say throw all that out and literally just get on your hands and knees and receive from God from the Holy Spirit to say okay what is the proper path for our organization? How are we to lead this? What what is this supposed to look like for us? Because if it looks like everybody else then then it's all going to be who has the biggest budget. You know you you have to be in tune with like what is the story that is being told in and through you and the organization and what you're trying to accomplish uh it needs to be very it needs to be very very passionate uh when you speak about it and talk about it uh because it's very difficult to raise funds it's very difficult.

Doug Smith 40:46

Yep yep you got that right um I I have a few lightning round questions to to wrap up with but before I do anything else on your heart that you would love to share with leaders today?

Peter Ostapko 40:57

Oh boy you know I mean I think I covered a lot of that I mean I uh yeah I would say this you know I mean depending on when you listen to this uh you know there's a seasonality to our life uh and we are not created and wired to go at a very high intense pace year round we need to create space and time to slow down and to stop uh sometimes full stop other times just to slow down we had our uh forum meet uh last month um and we we don't meet during the summer months June July and August and it's a group of about 40 45 business guys and and leaders in the community and and I was just like hey I want you guys to have a vision for how you're gonna have fun with your family and your kids this summer and I said don't it doesn't mean you have to take an extra vacation I'm not I mean you don't need to go spend thousands of dollars that's not what I mean but just you need to have a vision for how we're gonna engage and be intentional with our kids. And so I gave this example I was like hey you know what for two three months you could probably take off Tuesdays you know you could probably go in the office an hour, hour and a half later, rotate taking your kids to breakfast you know I mean just simple things that we can do to just kind of slow down a little bit. Uh and so that's the thing that I would say leaders especially those that are you know very type A and driven you know you're just going going going and you're plowing through and you're creating and you're achieving and you're producing and those are good things. God's wired you that way. But you have to slow down you have to stop you have to create space and margin to exhale sometimes and so that's something that I see a lot of people doing uh myself included and so I'm speaking to myself. And so that's that's what I would say.

Doug Smith 42:35

And you're speaking me too yeah I think anyone who's driven yeah it's has a hard time slowing down.

Peter Ostapko 42:39

All right if you find lightning round questions what's the best advice you've ever received and who gave it to you best advice I've ever uh boy well I would say probably more recently something that has become almost like a personal mantra is God is far more interested in who I'm becoming in him than what I'm doing in his name. And so uh that is a frequently revisited thought uh because there's so much truth to it especially as a as an achiever it may be the same answer but if you could put a quote on a billboard for everyone to read what would it say? I'd probably say that yeah I would probably well yeah I mean I would say that yeah I would say that all right who are you becoming what's shaping you I would ask a question I would rather there's so many good quotes out there I would just ask questions questions open up a lot of dialogue um I would say who are you becoming who do you need to forgive who's forgiven you I mean just stuff that just opens up deep deep stuff I would ask those questions so good do you have any uh are those your go-to usually for questions or do you have any others yeah those are I usually you know I'm a pretty highly relational guy so I uh when I when I have a conversation with someone I I try to be very engaged in in you know what they're mentioning and talking and saying often and then I kind of tie it back in. I always Ask about their family and their life. That usually opens up a lot of dialogue. So people like to give you the high highlights in the resume. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in things that I can find online. I'm interested in stuff that only happens between you and me right here, right now. That's what I want. Love it. What's your biggest leadership, Pepiv? Oh boy. I I I kind of don't want to say it, but like I mean this kindly. We overuse the word leadership. We need to use the word followership. Everybody's trying to be something and build flat platforms. And I I don't know. Like I I just I see the humility in Christ, and I think we could all use a big dose of that right now in the way that we love and serve. And I think in our humility, in our following of Jesus, I think that people are going to be drawn into that and say, okay, what's different? And then what we're doing is we're pointing people back to him and the way that he modeled life. You know. And so that that's what I would say. I I think everybody's trying to, and this is what I would say too with this, is everybody's trying to be the person to the left and to the right. Just be who you are. You don't have to, like if you're a pastor, you don't have to have multi-site. Like you don't have to grow. Like you just like that like if you're if you're a business leader, like you don't you don't have to write a book. You don't have to have a podcast. Like you don't have to do, like just be who you are. Like be your true authentic self. And and that's what I would say. That's what the world needs. The world doesn't need a bunch of imposters. The world needs people to be their true authentic self, rooted in their identity in Christ as sons and daughters. That's what we need. That's my leadership. So good.

Doug Smith 45:40

I love it. I'm gonna go change the name of my podcast. No leadership to that. No, I'll mess with you, man. No three followers. Hey, I'll give you full credit. Full credit. But no, that that is such a good word. Thank you for sharing that.

Peter Ostapko 45:54

But I mean that's like I be you. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta be your authentic self. Now, being authentic self too isn't like, well, you do you, and I'm just gonna be me, and I'm just my no, that's not what I mean either. Like it's from a place of humility and surrender and imperfection, not false humility, but it's like, hey, you know what? Like, here's some things I've learned, and I have a long way to go, but it's a posture of humility. I think, yeah, I think it's important.

Doug Smith 46:21

Which is again, not to beat a dead horse, but it's like that's why you need to be in community. So if if you and I are community and you see that in me, you can call it fully challenged, right? It's like, hey, I don't I don't know that you're being true to what God's called you to do and who and I think that's so so good. So uh thank you for sharing. You know, you're all about experiences, which I am too. I'm just curious, is there a bucket list experience that you've had that you think everyone should experience before they die? And if so, what is it?

Speaker 2 46:48

Well, I'll I'll say one that I uh that I want to do. Uh I want it I want to take my wife to Italy. That is that is definitely something. Let's go. Like we'd love to go to Italy. I tell you what, the Italians, they got it right with their food. I could eat pasta and and and just I could live on a vineyard. And I just, yeah, I I mean that's something that is a bucket list trip to to Europe. Uh, we're big baseball fans. We love baseball. And so uh I want to I want to take my kids to uh all the different stadiums. That's a big dream of mine. Uh we're working on the city. Have you been to PNC Park in Pittsburgh? I haven't, but if you want to hook me up, I'd love to. It's like top three. It's a beautiful, beautiful stadium.

Doug Smith 47:26

Yeah, come visit, man. We'll host you and we'd love to have you. I'd love to come. Let's make that happen. Yeah. Do you do you have this? Would be a wild child. Have you ever heard of a pastor named Matt Keller?

Peter Ostapko 47:34

Oh, yeah.

Doug Smith 47:35

This is Fort Myers, Florida.

Peter Ostapko 47:37

Yeah, there's one in Florida. Uh next. Yeah. Okay. Actually, when I do church lending, I did a considerable amount of work with the ARC Association of Religion.

Doug Smith 47:44

Oh, so yeah, you definitely know him. Yep. So yeah, Matt Matt's a great friend and mentor, and he's probably the biggest baseball fan. And so he comes up. He initially had he had the same bucket list to hit every ballpark. And now he just said we again, he's like, now I want to see the rays play specifically in every ballpark. So he's gonna come up and see the race play. But yeah, seriously, open invites you and your family would love to. And I have friends that have tickets that are right behind home plate. Like, yeah, we'll hook you up. Fantastic. Um, and Italy, do it. My wife and I had the honor of going uh a few years ago, the Almafi coast. I haven't been to the other places, but you must, must, must go there. Yeah, that's and uh anyway. Uh last two questions. If you could go back and have coffee with yourself at any age, and you would have actually listened to yourself, what age would that be? And what would you tell that version of Peter?

Peter Ostapko 48:32

Well, this is what I would say. I'd probably go back to my preteen self uh in the midst of just a lot of really uh difficult times in my life as a child, and I would say, Hey, kiddo, it's gonna be okay. Wow. I was really angry for a few years and uh before I found the Lord. And uh yeah, I'd probably I'd probably go back to him and say, It's gonna be okay. God's got you in all this. That's what I would say. Wow, thanks for sharing.

Doug Smith 49:00

And I always love just asking leaders or whoever I interview, you know, at the end of your life, what what do you want your ultimately your legacy to be?

Peter Ostapko 49:08

Well done, good and faithful servant.

Doug Smith 49:12

That's it.

Peter Ostapko 49:13

Right on? Well, I can't remember who said it uh preach preach the preach the word die and be forgotten. I mean, I can't remember. I mean, I'm not a preacher, but like I just I I tell you what, success to me is really simple. It's um that I love and I'm loved by my family, first and foremost. And like that, I mean nothing else really matters to me. I mean a lot of things matter to me, but like if if I don't if if I fail at that, um, I failed at everything. But if if my kids, you know, want to be around me in 30, 40 years when I'm old, I mean that's that's a beautiful life well lived, and I'll take that all day over any other achievement and accomplishment.

Doug Smith 49:50

So me too, brother. Me too. Well, Peter, thank you so much for your time. This hour flew by, and thank you just for gathering and connecting people. It matters so much, and uh, I look forward to building our friendship together.

Peter Ostapko 50:01

Oh, you bet. And I I'd love to connect to anybody. I'm on LinkedIn a lot, like that's my favorite place to be, social-wise. And so I'd love to connect with you on there and and uh and get to know each other.

Doug Smith 50:11

So fantastic. We'll include links to everything that we talked about and encourage you to check out all of the things we talked about as well. So thanks again and have a good one. Until next episode, everyone. See ya.

Peter Ostapko 50:20

See ya.

Doug Smith 50:20

Thanks, bud. Well, hey leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Peter. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything that we discussed in the show notes below. I also want to give a special thanks to our sponsor, Indosha Marketing Solutions. They are the producers of this podcast. And if your organization has any marketing needs at all, I wholeheartedly recommend their services. Check them out at endosha.com. That's a n-d-o-cia.com. And as always, I like to end every episode with a quote, and today I'll quote C.S. Lewis, who said this. He said, You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream. And I think Peter's story is a shining example of that. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. That's going to wrap up things for today. Remember, leader, don't quit. Keep leading. The world desperately needs your leadership. We'll talk to you next episode.